Rosneft Sechin Ulyukaev. Ulyukaev vs. Sechin. The ex-minister testified in court. What Ulyukaev spoke about

Verdict to ex-Minister of Economic Development Alexey Ulyukaev, who did not admit his guilt.

The brilliance and poverty of the Russian elite, the morals of officials and oligarchs are discussed by a doctor of political sciences, a Polish journalist, economist, Radio Liberty correspondent at the Ulyukaev trial Natalya Dzhanpoladova.

Presenter – Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr..

Video version of the program

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Let's watch a video report by Natalya Dzhanpoladova and Anton Oleinikov about today's trial in the Ulyukaev case.

Judge: The verdict of the Zamoskvoretsky District Court of Moscow dated December 15, 2017 in relation to Alexey Valentinovich Ulyukaev is amended: to exclude from the descriptive, motivational and operative parts of the verdict the indication of the appointment of additional punishment to Ulyukaev in the form of deprivation of the right to hold positions related to the performance of organizational, administrative, administrative and economic functions. functions in state bodies, in local governments, in state and municipal institutions and in state corporations. The rest of the sentence is left unchanged, and the appeals are not satisfied.

Correspondent: The hearing on the appeal against the sentence of Alexey Ulyukaev lasted the whole day. Today, the unexpectedly key witness in this case is the head of the Rosneft company, Igor Sechin. The defense sought his interrogation during almost the entire trial on the merits, but Sechin, citing being busy, did not come to court.

Today, Sechin’s interrogation took place behind closed doors, since, according to the prosecutor, his testimony could contain a commercial secret. According to the defense, Sechin’s interrogation not only did not clarify the case, but also raised even more questions. As the lawyers explained during the debate between the parties, Sechin admitted that Ulyukaev did not have the authority to influence the privatization of the Bashneft company. He also said that Alexey Ulyukaev extorted a bribe from him in October 2016 during the summit in Goa, when they were walking up the stairs in a crowd. Ulyukaev himself denied this information.

Lawyers also questioned the timing of the transfer of money in November 2016 at the Rosneft office. According to the defenders, Ulyukaev did not understand that this was a bribe, and Igor Sechin actually lured the former minister to the company’s office, where he was detained.

The defense asked to cancel the verdict and acquit Alexey Ulyukaev.

In December last year, the Zamoskvoretsky court found Alexei Ulyukaev guilty of extorting a bribe of two million dollars from the head of Rosneft, Igor Sechin, in exchange for a positive assessment of the deal to purchase the Bashneft company. The court sentenced Ulyukaev to eight years in a maximum security colony. The former minister did not admit guilt and said that this criminal case was a provocation on the part of Igor Sechin and FSB officer Oleg Feoktistov.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Sigmund, did you expect this process to end this way?

It was difficult to expect that the appeal court would suddenly acquit Ulyukaev. This is too serious a matter of national importance. It took place in exactly this format, of course, with the sanction of the most influential person in the Russian Federation.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Yuliy Anatolyevich, were you expecting any concessions for Ulyukaev?

No.

The change in sentence seems somewhat ridiculous. The second part has been preserved - he cannot hold state and municipal representative positions, that is, in the executive branch he can, but not in the representative branch.

Why was this change made in the first place? Is this a demonstration that a process took place or something else?

This whole trial looks like a comedy show

This whole trial looks like a comedy show. Sechin, who did not appear in court... And he did not appear even after, as you say, the most influential person (and I strongly doubt this) told him: “This is not good. We must appear in court.” And then he suddenly appears and, by the way, changes the entire plot of the trial, because initially there was a statement by him and Feoktistov that money was extorted in Goa, but while playing billiards. And then suddenly, going up the stairs, in the crowd, asking for a bribe - it looks somewhat paradoxical.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: It looks like it.

Ivan Valentinovich, were you surprised by the verdict?

I was surprised, of course. I thought that the appearance of Igor Sechin in court would greatly add a humanistic flavor to the process. It is very significant that Igor Sechin admitted: due to his hardware capabilities and official competencies, Alexey Ulyukaev could not extort a bribe from him or influence the privatization of Bashneft.

As Yuliy said, the plot has been changed, and not only by the game of billiards, but also by the fact that the head of the Rosneft company officially admitted that Ulyukaev did not have the opportunity to hinder or facilitate the privatization of Bashneft.

Taking into account the time that Alexey Ulyukaev served under house arrest, being in real custody since December 15, 2017, I thought that now it would be possible to give him a suspended sentence, reclassifying this case.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Yuliy Anatolyevich, did you also think that Alexey Ulyukaev could be released?

I never believed that they would release me. In such situations, the people who provoked this process do not want to lose face.

I think that the deadlines will still be reduced. But this may not happen instantly.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: As it turned out, this was not a pre-election performance.

Of course, this could have something to do with the elections. Your result is always determined. But every time before any federal election we observe an increase in tension, fever in power, movements of the Kremlin towers, various groups, and so on.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Ivan Valentinovich, did the results of this trial affect the preferences of voters?

No. I think that by that time the voter was already very distracted by the message, beautiful films, cruise missiles and the 100,000-strong rally at Luzhniki. For the bureaucracy, this was certainly a horror story.

Ulyukaev decisively dissociated himself from the current political system, asked for forgiveness from the people for being part of it, and received eight years. And Nikita Belykh, another one of the few liberals who ended up in the governor’s chair, was probably advised by his lawyers not to make political statements like Ulyukaev, otherwise nothing good would await him. In the end, the result was the same.

If Vladimir Putin, out of an instinct for self-preservation, begins reforms - and I think this is his last term - it will be with the judicial system. After leaving the post of President of Russia, an independent court will be his main guarantee. He will surround everything with laws and decrees, but they will not work in the absence of an independent political system. Based on these reasons, of all the reforms that are being prepared at the Center for Strategic Research of Alexei Kudrin, the judicial one is most likely to begin.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: I hope you don't mean that the former president will be tried.

In order for him not to be tried, he needs an independent judicial system that will act within the framework of adopted laws that provide guarantees and his immunity.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Are we present at one of the acts of clash between elites?

Yes, but I would put the word “elite” in quotation marks.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: It turns out that their behind-the-scenes squabbles will remain at approximately the same level?

A key link in a democratic system is the independence of the judiciary. If it doesn’t exist, then forget the word “democracy”. The political regime (this is not a negative connotation) that governs the country does not need stable institutions, it needs very unstable institutions. In this situation, he solves his problems much more effectively.

What Ivan is talking about is decided not through laws and the judicial system, but by internal agreement among the structures that govern the state. They have absolutely no need for a normally functioning judicial system, because this is a change in the entire structure of the regime, and they are not interested in it.

Agreements in the system of law of the strong are easily violated within this system. First - the laws, and then - the courts that will implement them. Then changing the Constitution and moving the center of real power to parliament will be a multi-step political combination. Simple agreements: “We promise you that we will not touch you, we became billionaires thanks to you” are unreliable, because these people are devoid of reflection.

This is the first time I have encountered such a distortion of the ideas of justice as in Russia.

Vladimir Putin is a long-term player, and if he wants to retain real power for himself by leaving the presidency and initiating a constitutional reform, he will make sure that the parliament remains under control, but the courts are independent.

But this is the first time I have encountered such a distortion of the ideas of justice as in Russia, so I doubt that during the six years that Vladimir Putin has been in power, it will be possible to reform the judicial system in such a way that it will become a guarantor of his security in the future. It is clear that for your economic life, reform of the judicial system is a necessary condition that must be met in order for life to move from a “dead point.”

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr. : In particular, in the case of the trial of Alexey Ulyukaev, we have to remember that it would be nice for us to have an independent judicial system.

Those in power absolutely do not need this. In order to reform government power, those you are reforming must be interested in this. The desire of society and the political will of one person are not enough.

Vladimir Putin does not and cannot make any decisions on his own, especially those involving major reorganizations. There are those interest groups that will determine what parliament will pass. Can you imagine such an exotic system that Ivan offers us, that you have a controlled parliament and an independent judicial system? There is not a single regime in the world, and we have 192 states, so that there is a controlled parliament and an independent judicial system. It's like crossing a hedgehog with a snake.

The terrible story with the Russian judicial system is that even if the court decides in favor of a person who is being tried on a fabricated case, for whom the democratic public is standing behind a wall, as in the case of Yuri Dmitriev, then everyone understands that the judge is not doing this because that he is the only fair one in this clearing, but only because he received permission or instructions. It’s good that there are people in the executive or real government who understand: sometimes you have to step back. But even in such cases, it is clear that the judicial system does not work and does not make decisions on its own.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: It turns out that Ulyukaev had no right to influence this deal, but nevertheless asked for a bribe for it. Is there any logic here?

We are trying to find some reasonable arguments in a system in which they have no meaning. The entire defense of Alexey Ulyukaev was based on the fact that he could not influence this process. This was known and understood even at the initial stage. We understand perfectly well that the issue of privatization of Bashneft was decided at the level of the country's top leadership. Despite the fact that Alexey Ulyukaev was the Minister of Economy, it is clear that his word in this case could be used as the word of an expert, and not as a decision maker.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Bashneft has already been taken away from AFK Sistema.

This is a showdown between major players. Yevtushenkov, by the way, also received money for allegedly spending funds “incorrectly” while AFK Sistema owned Bashneft.

When they take a bribe in a suitcase, either the person is not very smart, or it is a provocation. I know Alexey Ulyukaev quite well and I can’t imagine that he is so stupid that he would “buy in” like that.

Why didn't he open the suitcase?

When this all started, he was not allowed out of the Rosneft building, no lawyers or anyone was allowed in there. We don't know what happened inside. There are a lot of strange situations that come up in this lawsuit.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Many questions remain unanswered.

Undoubtedly. And then the lawyers will go to higher authorities, to the European Court of Human Rights. But the European Court of Human Rights does not examine the situation by content, it examines it by procedure. And the procedure is a closed interrogation of Sechin, which took place today. But they immediately laid down straw - this is a trade secret, although we do not have a clearly formulated such concept. This is also a kind of arbitrariness on the part of the judiciary to declare the interrogation closed.

What does this mean – a trade secret for the sale of a state-owned enterprise? What's the secret when the deal has already taken place?

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: It can be seen that this process was ended on a “living thread” in order to quickly forget about it.

But it, of course, played a role in terms of influencing public opinion, especially since it began before the story of the speech before the Federal Assembly. To some extent, it was helpful - to be a demonstration of the fight against corruption. This is not a question of influencing the election results, but of tuning public opinion to the fact that we are really fighting corruption, and even such high-ranking people as Minister of Economy Alexey Ulyukaev could end up in court. After all, most people around the world will not delve into the details; they see this picture only as they present it.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: How flawlessly from a legal point of view did this trial end?

There is no need to talk about the impeccability of an absolutely fake, farcical process. It is a clear picture of the current degradation of the Russian judicial system and the system of inquiry.

According to the procedure, one can hope for a positive decision from the European Court, but time will pass, and every day Alexey Ulyukaev’s life - at his age, with his not the best health indicators - will be taken away.

I have some hope that, as in the story with Yuri Dmitriev, the system will still unclench its jaws, because the continuation of torture treatment of Ulyukaev, one of the highest officials who served the regime quite loyally, is the demoralization of the entire bureaucratic apparatus. Moreover, all the tasks regarding the elections have already been solved. The regime needs to be humanized somehow.

Ivan paints the perfect picture. If we talk about the role of this process in clan squabbles, then on the contrary, this is a very good horror story: “Guys, any of you could find yourself in the same situation at any moment.” There is no demoralization here and there cannot be. After all, our entire system today is built on the fact that any person who is engaged in economic and managerial activities can be put on trial at any time. We have such “wonderful” laws that it is impossible not to break them even with all the desire. And what if the regime suddenly says: “Guys, we will play by different rules”? Why does he need this?

Within this structure, there are methods of internal arbitration.

These are the so-called “informal practices”. There's no need for a trial.

If this system works effectively, and the goal is stability of power, then serious changes in this structure are very dangerous, because they can lead to completely unexpected consequences.

If you try to create a normal system in order to protect one, then it is not a fact that it will not work against the one who creates it. If she is really independent, then anyone can fall under her.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Do you think this is the last process of this level when both the head of a large company and the minister are involved?

No. The problem of clarifying the relationship between the groups that govern the country will develop. As the budget pie shrinks, the competition for access to the pie becomes more intense. Any means can be used here, including show trials. Now a lot of trials are being prepared, if not against major officials, then against major businessmen and banks. Every day we hear: this one was arrested, then that one...

The latest story with the Magomedovs. For so many years, people lived happily ever after and suddenly found themselves behind bars... This is a showdown that comes out in this form.

The governor of Karelia was accused of creating an organized criminal group. He was in this position for 10 years. And when the FSB asked the question: “Where were you looking?”, they said: “We watched for 10 years to collect all the information.”

Igor Sechin should be the next prime minister

: The next prime minister should be Igor Sechin. Vladimir Putin understands that this is a person who will go shoulder to shoulder with him to the end, and who cannot be offered patronage for business. He understands how corrupt the bureaucracy is, and if Sechin becomes prime minister, many will be brought to their senses. The man who proved his effectiveness by imprisoning Ulyukaev, receiving 130 billion from AFK Sistema, and then the Magomedov brothers, should, of course, become prime minister. Now I don’t care about the stock market, there’s nothing to catch there anymore. Any official, starting with federal ministers and ending with lesser governors, understands that this person cannot be spoiled.

If Sechin is installed as prime minister, then everything will fall into one hand, and no one wants this, and obviously this will not be accepted. But it is useless to scare officials, they already know very well that they can be imprisoned, but the whole system works in this paradigm. You don't need Sechin for this.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: Will there be major changes in the new cabinet, right up to the prime minister?

I do not undertake to predict, but I do not exclude this option. We must look for solutions to balance the conflicts of interest that arise. Even judging by the behavior of Mr. Sechin, who represents one of these companies, they have suffered quite severe violations. Apparently, there are other quite powerful structures. Balance can be achieved through personnel appointments, especially in the government. We do not know the internal mechanism of this process, what informal practices and agreements there are.

Putin is a person who makes decisions, but only when everyone has agreed with each other. He is a hostage to those people who compete around him. In this sense, he is not a dictatorial figure.

You probably know better, you live here. When we observe from the outside, it seems to us that Putin has more power. If they cannot agree within the power elite, then Putin will still have the last word.

I have great doubts about this. This is an internal kitchen. I give a number of examples, including the story of Sechin. He did not appear in court. The president publicly says: “This is not good. You have to appear in court.” And Sechin says: “No, guys, I’m busy, I won’t come to court.” In any rigid system such a formulation of the problem is impossible in principle.

We learn about corruption either when people do not agree and someone starts talking about it, or there is a deliberate provocation, and then it is revealed. These are latent processes. None of those who participate in these processes, unless they have lost interest in them, will ever tell you about it.

Vladimir Kara-Murza Sr.: This case ended somehow ingloriously, predictably boringly.

For the existing system this is quite symptomatic. It is indicative from the point of view of the functioning of the system. Personally, I certainly feel very sorry for Alexey Ulyukaev, but from the point of view of the functioning of the system, this is an absolutely indicative matter. Maybe it scared someone, but all officials of this rank understand that the same thing could happen to them at any moment.

Sometimes I get the impression that our political life is extremely boring because it is more predictable. But I would like to emphasize an important, in my opinion, point that goes beyond the borders of the Russian Federation. This system that you have developed - the story with Ulyukaev, with the governor, and so on, has its consequences in current international affairs and conflicts. Politicians who deal with the Russian Federation are tense today, and not just because they don't like what Russia has done in the UK or in Syria. They understand that this is some kind of rotten, unpredictable state that lives by its own laws, and it needs to be slowed down a little.

Illustration copyright TASS Image caption Sechin and Ulyukaev definitely agree on one thing: no one heard their conversation at the BRICS summit

The word of the head of Rosneft against the word of the ex-minister: this is what the trial in the case of the former head of the Ministry of Economic Development, accused of taking a bribe, actually came down to. The BBC Russian service looked into how their versions differ.

On Monday, in the Zamoskvoretsky Court of Moscow, Alexey Ulyukaev for the first time told his version of how events unfolded in the fall of 2016.

It has still not been possible to interrogate Sechin, who handed the minister a bag of money - he did not appear in court for the fourth time. His testimony was not made public, but its contents were previously reported by the BBC Russian Service.

Meeting in Goa

At a meeting in October 2016, the prosecution claims, Ulyukaev asked Sechin for a bribe. This happened during the BRICS summit in Goa, where heads of Russian state-owned companies and members of the government came. By this time, the deal to privatize Bashneft had already been closed.

Prosecution witnesses questioned in court said they saw Sechin and Ulyukaev meeting, but did not hear the content of the conversation. The topic of their conversation is known only from the testimony of the ex-minister at the trial and the interrogation of the head of Rosneft.

Telephone conversation before the meetingat Rosneft

Ulyukaev was detained on the evening of November 14, after a meeting with Sechin at the Rosneft office. In the morning they agreed over the phone about this visit, but Sechin and Ulyukaev’s versions of who invited whom differ. From the transcripts of conversations read out in court, it followed that it was Sechin who persuaded Ulyukaev to “come and see the company.”

Meeting at Rosneft

Ulyukaev and Sechin met at about five in the evening, at the personal entrance of the head of the company. The head of Rosneft was wearing recording equipment. A transcript of this conversation is in the file and was announced in court, but the top manager and the ex-minister have different interpretations of it.

Ulyukaev case

Ulyukaevadetained on November 142016 year at the Rosneft office" in Moscow. The Investigative Committee of Russia approvedlthat officialcaught red-handedupon receipt2 million dollars. Nand in the hands of the ex-ministerAfound traces of a special substance, which was used to process the bag and banknotes.

Pabout the investigation version,Ulyukaev demanded a bribe of $2 million from Sechin so that his department would give a positive opinion on Rosneft’s acquisition of the state-owned stake in Bashneft.

Ulyukaev was charged witharticle "Paccepting a bribe by an official on an especially large scalee". He is in dangerup to 15 yearsimprisonment. INThe former minister does not recognize him.

The famous economist Vladimir Milov outlined his. But let's start in order. So, ex-Minister of Economic Development Alexey Ulyukaev this week, speaking in the Zamoskvoretsky court, drew the attention of those gathered to one rather interesting and significant fact. He said that according to the decree of the authorities, which was signed the day before his arrest, investors for 19.5% of Rosneft shares had to pay a total amount of ₽710 billion, and after a preventive measure was imposed on him in the form of house arrest, For some reason the contract amount decreased. Ulyukaev said that in the end they asked for ₽692 billion for the stake in Rosneft. So, according to the ex-minister, the difference turned out to be a quarter of the expenses that the Russian authorities allocate for culture.

Milov also recalled that Ulyukaev in his speech mentioned disagreements with Rosneft regarding the amount of transfers from the contract to the country’s budget. However, he believes that if we recall all the available information on this case, that the contradictions here concerned more numerous issues.

Director's privatization

In the Russian Federation, director privatization is the most common method of privatization of oil companies. We are talking about the transfer of control to directors. This was the case with Lukoil, and this was the case with Surgutneftegaz. As a result, these oil enterprises became the property of management. The conclusion here suggests itself: this is the absolute norm for this industry in Russia. That is why it is quite logical to imagine that the same awaits Rosneft.

Vladimir Milov recalled that it was no secret that Sechin did not hide the fact that he was against the privatization of at least some amount of Rosneft shares. In his opinion, then it was inappropriate. However, in his opinion, the situation changed when a real opportunity arose for Rosneft to acquire itself. Only after this Sechin, who had previously been vehemently against this, finally gave the go-ahead. Then, at the end of October - beginning of November last year, an official statement was made that Rosneftegaz would buy shares in Rosneft. Moreover, as Milov says, it is fair to note that Sechin is the chairman of the board of directors of Rosneftegaz. It turns out that the block of shares becomes the property of Sechin.

The expert suggests that Sechin was hardly satisfied with the situation, that he was an ordinary hired manager. According to the economist, he was burdened by the situation of constantly receiving instructions to carry out any actions or transactions, including from the Russian authorities. He slept and saw himself as a co-owner. Milov emphasized that he wanted to sit with the state at the same table on more equal terms.

Alexey Ulyukaev: between the gears (drawing by S. Yolkin)

Putin did not approve of the idea

Apparently, Vladimir Putin did not like the idea of ​​Sechin buying out Rosneft shares. In October last year, information leaked that the president had approached Alekperov to take part in the privatization of a 19.5% stake in the enterprise. In my opinion, the economist noted, this was a clear message that Putin already then saw the likelihood of some image problems, which is why he gave the order to find a conditionally external buyer.

According to Sechin himself, cited by Milov, he spent a long time selecting a candidate, but still found an investor. It turned out to be the Glencore consortium, as well as the Qatari investment fund. Moreover, the main player in this scheme was Glencore, and the Qatari investment fund is the largest shareholder of Glencore, which has been in a difficult financial situation over the past few years. According to Milov, they had accumulated a lot of debt, and the share price had fallen significantly, and Qatar had to somehow save this investment. Thus, Glencore received a serious 5-year contract with Rosneft as a bonus so that they would agree to participate in the deal.

Milov, including in a review for Forbes, reported then that this story is just beginning, and the Qatari investment fund, together with Glencore, are only intermediate owners. And he was right. A few months later, the shares changed hands, and as a result, most of the shares ended up with the Chinese corporation Glencore, but according to the economist, this is not the final owner. As the expert recalls, it was planned to establish a joint company, which should take over the development of fields in Eastern Siberia, as well as in the Far East, etc. One of the options for the development of events is the contribution of the Chinese to their shares in the joint venture, where Rosneft will receive control.

Thus, according to Milov, everything is getting closer to the fact that Sechin will nevertheless receive this block of shares into his own property. How and when this will happen is still unknown, but Milov does not see why other investors need this. It is for this same reason that there were no other serious buyers for Rosneft shares.

How did Ulyukaev interfere with Sechin?

Milov recalls that the Minister at that time did not support the idea, which was based on the principle “what falls, is lost.” He demanded that Rosneftegaz and Rosneft, after purchasing the shares, immediately find a third-party buyer for them, that is, a real strategic investor. But such a scheme, the expert emphasizes, was not beneficial to Sechin, who wanted to acquire shares under the scheme to no longer be obliged to the government, and in the future to be able to make decisions on these shares without the state. Milov suggested here that this was the main reason to “get rid” of Ulyukaev.

In all this, it is important to understand that Ulyukaev is the head of Dmitry Pristanskov (head of the Federal Property Management Agency), and the Federal Property Management Agency is subordinate to the Ministry of Economic Development, it follows that the head of the Federal Property Management Agency is Ulyukaev’s deputy, Milov emphasizes.

Thus, before sending all options for the privatization of Rosneft to the authorities, Ulyukaev’s signature was the last. And if he prevented the uncontrolled transfer of Rosneft shares to those whom Sechin deemed necessary, and continued to demand commitments to find a real third-party investor, then, according to Milov, Sechin would no doubt face a number of difficulties.

The head of Rosneft still managed to resolve this pressing issue. He made it clear to government officials that they should not argue with him, otherwise you could end up in prison. As a result, Rosneft shares left the state’s ownership precisely according to Sechin’s scheme, without any obligation to find an external buyer. It turns out that from now on Sechin can obtain ownership of the coveted stake without any schemes, and Ulyukaev is no longer an obstacle to him in this, the expert is sure.

Kristina Shishkina

Word against word - this is how one of the most high-profile trials in Russia of the past year can be characterized. In the dock is former Minister of Economic Development Alexey Ulyukaev, who is accused of receiving two million dollars from the head of the Rosneft company Igor Sechin. The 360 ​​TV channel decided to compare the testimony of the accused ex-minister and the entrepreneur - the main witness for the prosecution.

Sechin's testimony was never made public: he did not appear at court hearings. His story is based on excerpts from interrogation protocols published by the BBC Russian Service with confirmation from anonymous sources. Rosneft spokesman Mikhail Leontyev called these data “stuffing or falsification.” Minister Ulyukaev’s story was voiced by the ex-minister himself and his lawyers during court hearings.

The first conversation between Sechin and Ulyukaev could have taken place in the Indian state of Goa at the BRICS summit in 2016. At that time, the deal to privatize Bashneft was already closed.

According to the ex-minister, he saw that the head of Rosneft was playing billiards with the head of VTB Bank Andrei Kostin. He came over to say hello and just chat. He did not raise any conversation about remuneration. Then, according to him, Sechin gestured to him to prepare a hole in his jacket for the order and promised to treat the minister to rare wine.

Igor Sechin, as follows from the interrogation protocol, stated that he spoke with Ulyukaev at the hotel, but he did not mention either Kostin or billiards. But he noted that Ulyukaev showed the Latin letter V with a two-fingered gesture, clarifying that this means two million dollars.

The ex-minister was detained on the evening of November 14 at the Rosneft office. Even then, Sechin had recording equipment. Call recordings. In the interrogation protocols, Sechin claims that the minister called him himself and asked to schedule a meeting for the same day. He clarified that he took this as pressure to receive a bribe as quickly as possible.

Ulyukaev, in turn, claims that Sechin called him and invited him to urgently come to the Rosneft office.

Judging by the transcripts of telephone conversations, the truth is on the side of the ex-minister.

Sechin: Alexey Valentinovich, dear?

Ulyukaev: Yes, Igor Ivanovich? All attention, how glad I am to hear from you.

Sechin: Don’t tell me, me too. Well, firstly, I had unfulfilled assignments there, but I have readiness based on the results of my work there...

Ulyukaev: Yes.

Sechin: And that means, secondly, a lot of questions have accumulated there, both on the boards of directors and on everything.

Ulyukaev: Well, let's discuss everything.

Sechin: I have only one request - if you can, come to us for a second, because here, maybe... Well, I’ll show you, in general. And, in general, take a look at the company.

Ulyukaev: Yes, I’ll be happy to look at the company. Why?

The conversation during the handover of the bag with the money was read out in full during the court hearing. The parties' arguments about what was actually meant are very different.

Sechin: Yes, yes, yes, sit for a second, okay? So, you are now, oh, well... I’m doing this, briefly, so that you don’t freeze. Well, first of all, I apologize for delaying the completion of this assignment. Well, there were business trips.

Ulyukaev: Well, life, of course.

Sechin: So far we have collected volumes back and forth. But you can consider the task completed. Here, take it, put it down and let’s go and have some tea. So, here's the key for every fireman

Sechin himself explained the words about “delaying the order” in such a way that it took some time to collect money. The report notes that at this time he was pointing to a bag with money. The words “collected volume” also referred to money. Ulyukaev, in turn, said that he thought that the bag contained wine, which the head of Rosneft promised him during the BRICS summit.

I wasn't 100% sure that there was wine in the bag, but I had an idea. Everyone knows that they give me books and wine - what I love and know

Alexey Ulyukaev.

The ex-minister did not pay attention to the key to the bag, nor to the weight of the luggage. Sechin noted that all this indicated that Ulyukaev knew perfectly well why he had come.

The accusation was based on hints, metaphors and a special solution.

The BBC Russian Service has at its disposal copies of the protocols of the interrogation of Igor Sechin, which was conducted by employees of the Investigative Committee of Russia in the case of Alexey Ulyukaev. The head of Rosneft said that no one except him heard how the ex-Minister of Economy extorted $2 million. The trial of former Minister of Economic Development Alexei Ulyukaev, accused of receiving a bribe on an especially large scale, has been going on for more than three months. Ulyukaev was detained on November 14, 2016 after he received a bag of money from the head of Rosneft, Igor Sechin.

Sechin is the main witness and initiator of the criminal case against Ulyukaev. It was he who complained about the minister to the FSB in 2016, and he was also a participant in the operational experiment, after which the minister was caught red-handed.

Until now, Sechin has never publicly told his version of events. He failed to show up in court three times when he was called to act as a witness. This week, on November 22, the judge sent Sechin a fourth summons.

Three interrogations

The chief executive director of Rosneft himself, answering a question from journalists whether he would come to court, said that he reflected his position “in written testimony and in public speeches.”

The BBC Russian service managed to get acquainted with what Sechin told investigators during interrogations. The authenticity of the copies of interrogation protocols was confirmed by a BBC interlocutor familiar with the case materials, who was not authorized to disclose details of the investigation.

In total, the head of Rosneft was interrogated three times: on the morning of November 15, in an official car, the morning after Ulyukaev’s arrest. The second time he talked for two hours with a colonel of the Investigative Committee of Russia in one of Rosneft’s offices on Sofiyskaya Embankment on January 17. The third interrogation took place on May 31.

Ulyukaev’s lawyer, Darejan Kveidze, confirmed that investigators interrogated Sechin three times.

Sechin's press secretary Mikhail Leontyev said that the case file contains four protocols related to Sechin, one of which is a statement to the FSB.

No one heard Ulyukaev asking for a bribe

During the first interrogation in the car, Sechin did not say when and where exactly Ulyukaev, in his opinion, demanded the bribe: he only said that it was approximately “in October-November 2016.”

Two months later, the head of Rosneft recalled the details of the events. According to him, on October 15, at a summit in Goa, the minister “during the daytime in a hotel building during a conversation” began discussing the privatization of the Bashneft oil company.

Sechin noted in his testimony that by that time Rosneft had already acquired the state stake in Bashneft and the deal was approved by the government. The minister “asked to thank him in some way for his positive decision by paying a so-called bonus,” the head of the company told investigators his version of the conversation.

After which, Sechin claims, he asked Ulyukaev how to understand his request for “gratitude.”

“Ulyukaev A.V., with a gesture in the form of two fingers, showed the amount of the remuneration he required, specifying verbally that this gesture corresponds to $2 million,” Sechin said during interrogation. “I promised to think about this proposal from Ulyukaev A.V.”

This conversation, it follows from Sechin’s testimony, was never heard by anyone else. “The fact of this meeting with A.V. Ulyukaev, but not the content of the conversation,” can be confirmed by the security service of Rosneft PJSC, he said during interrogation.

Prosecution witnesses questioned in court also said that they had not heard such a conversation. Life correspondent Alexander Yunashev and Rosneft security manager Vadim Derevyagin said that they saw Sechin and Ulyukaev playing billiards during a break between the summit events, but did not hear the conversation. They also did not notice any special gestures.

The former minister himself claimed that he did not ask for money, and the FSB organized a provocation against him after Sechin’s deliberately false denunciation. Even at the first court hearing in August, he called the accusations of extortion false and absurd, “especially if we bear in mind Mr. Sechin’s political weight in the Russian political establishment.” He explained that his “weight” is not equivalent to the “weight” of the head of Rosneft.

Who called whom the day before the money was transferred?

Returning from a business trip, Sechin told the head of the Rosneft security service, Oleg Feoktistov, about what had happened in Goa, and together they contacted the FSB. The top manager and his subordinate agreed to participate in an operational experiment, during which it was planned to catch Ulyukaev red-handed.

During the second interrogation, Sechin described the morning of the operational experiment as follows: On November 14, around noon, Ulyukaev himself called him and asked for a meeting. The head of the state-owned company perceived this call as a “repeated demand for a bribe,” it follows from the interrogation materials; this call was witnessed by Feoktistov, who was sitting in his office.

Sechin also told the investigator that the minister, having learned about his departure on November 15 on a business trip, did not want to reschedule the meeting and offered to meet at the Rosneft office on the same day.

Telephone conversations between the head of Rosneft and the official were listened to and recorded by the FSB - the transcript of the conversation between Sechin and Ulyukaev before the meeting on November 14 refutes the testimony of the top manager. It follows from it that it was he who called Ulyukaev, asked for a meeting and spent a long time trying to persuade him to come to the company’s office at exactly 17:00.

“Sechin himself called me under the pretext of discussing the affairs of the corporation and persuaded me to come to Rosneft, where he gave me the money,” the ex-minister himself said earlier in court.

Irina Dyutina, who worked as Ulyukaev’s assistant in November last year, also said in court that the secretary of Rosneft called the minister, and not vice versa. [...]

Package in a bag or bag in a bag

On the same day, an FSB operative gave Sechin $2 million in cash at the Rosneft office. The head of the company did not specify in his testimony whether this was done before or after the call to Ulyukaev. But in the interrogation he first mentions money, and then the call.

Sechin did not specify who provided $2 million for the experiment. He only said that Feoktistov was involved in the “issue of finding” money together with the FSB.

$2 million in 100 banknotes, treated with a special solution, was placed in a bag, and the bag was placed “in a red fabric bag,” Sechin claimed during interrogation.

The key to the bag was placed in an envelope. “As FSB officers explained to me, this method of packing a bag with money and a key was used to prevent premature contact of any persons except the bribe taker with the bag,” Sechin said during interrogation. “O.V. Feoktistov put the key to my clothes in my pocket.” the lock with which the said bag was locked."

Ulyukaev’s lawyer, Darejan Kveidze, previously noted that the money was in the bag “in a camouflaged form”: first, the bills were wrapped in a cloth bag, and then the bag was put in the bag. Thus, the minister’s defense emphasized, even having opened the bag, Ulyukaev would not have been able to understand what exactly was inside.
However, the minister never opened the bag.

Sechin and Ulyukaev did not understand each other well

Sechin and Ulyukaev met at the “personal garage entrance” of the head of Rosneft, said the head of the company.

“He was dressed in a dark suit, he did not have any warm outer clothing, so I offered him a jacket,” Sechin said during the second interrogation. “He refused, citing his habit of traveling short distances without a jacket.”

Then, according to the head of Rosneft, the minister approached him and the place where the bag with money stood. “A short conversation took place between us, in which I told A.V. Ulyukaev that “the amount was collected,” thus denoting a bribe,” Sechin told the investigator.

Ulyukaev “did not ask him any questions” and “did not express surprise at receiving a heavy bag of money from me.” “He was not interested in the contents of the bag and the need for a key to it, which clearly indicated his full awareness of the purpose of the visit to Rosneft and the contents of the bag,” Sechin said.

The dialogue that took place in the parking lot between Sechin and Ulyukaev was read out verbatim in court: Sechin wore listening equipment throughout the experiment.

Ulyukaev’s defense ordered a psychological and linguistic examination of this conversation. Expert linguist, professor of the Department of Forensic Expertise at the Moscow State Law Academy, Elena Galyashina, came to the conclusion that the minister might not have known about the contents of the bag.

“Ulyukaev’s reaction is: “Yes?” - surprised, he does not quite understand what is happening,” she noted, speaking at a court hearing this week, on November 21.

Sechin told the investigator that with his phrase “consider the task completed,” he told Ulyukaev that the money was being transferred and collected to Rosneft “solely at the request and in the interests” of the minister. According to Galyashina, this phrase, on the contrary, means that there is still some unfinished task.

Judging by the recordings of the conversation at Rosneft, the minister and the head of the company did not say anything about the bribe, money, Bashneft or the bag. Sechin handed the key to the bag to Ulyukaev with the words “so, here’s the key for every fireman.” Galyashina claims that the phrase “take it, put it down” said by Sechin (probably referring to a bag) prompted the minister to take the bag and “go and have some tea,” as the head of the company suggested.

Leontyev did not answer questions about the content of Sechin’s interrogations. He only stated that Ulyukaev “was caught red-handed and completely exposed.”

“It would be possible to pay more attention to the details of the incident if people were interested in the content of the trial, and not in the idiotic hunt for Sechin with the help of meaningless subpoenas, as well as baskets of sausage and so on,” Leontyev added.

The next hearing in the Ulyukaev case will take place on November 27. The court only has to question Ulyukaev and Sechin. Sechin's lawyer Nikolai Klen told the court this week that the head of Rosneft most likely will not be able to appear at the hearings until the end of the year due to a "tight work schedule."

“Igor Ivanovich Sechin believes that the testimony he gave earlier can be read out in court, he supports and confirms it,” Judge Larisa Semenova read out the lawyer’s statement.

Ulyukaev case

Ulyukaev was detained on November 14, 2016 at the Rosneft office in Moscow. The Investigative Committee of Russia claimed that the official was caught red-handed while receiving $2 million. Traces of a special substance that was used to treat the bag and banknotes were found on the ex-minister’s hands.

According to investigators, Ulyukaev demanded a bribe of $2 million from Sechin so that his department would give a positive opinion on Rosneft’s acquisition of the state-owned stake in Bashneft.

Ulyukaev was charged under the article “Receipt of a bribe by an official on an especially large scale.” He faces up to 15 years in prison. The former minister does not admit his guilt.